| robert Lahser |
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Reply with quote | #1 |
Hello- the Grounded Grid preamp is an active preamp,right-?
thanks,
Robert |
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| PAUL |
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Reply with quote | #2 |
Its got a power supply and tubes that provide gain, I believe that makes it active
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| Don A. | |
| Michael Visser |
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Reply with quote | #4 |
Hello, clean music lovers,
Is there an example of a preamp that is not active.
I have only two weeks ago ever encountered this
concept, somewhere in my reading, there was no
explanation of what non active might be.
I can only think of transformers, which IMO are not
really amps in the true sense.
Cordially, M.V.
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| PAUL |
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Reply with quote | #5 |
Some passive units are no more than a selector switch (for different inputs) and a volume control to adjust level.
You are venturing into an area that there is equal passion on both sides.
IMO every time I have tried passive I find the music lifeless and not engaging. Its clean with out distortion, but boring.
The GG is the best so far in my 40 years for presenting clean, fast, and lively play, even though I fine it abit less engaging than my previous tube preamp which was very warm and lush sounding but not very real compared to the GG. The GG is good and a great value for $500. If you are looking for more you will have to spend at least 4X or more. I compared a recent AUDIO HORIZON ($4k) that was much more engaging but I chose not to spend the money since I am saving for retirement.
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| C.B. |
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Reply with quote | #6 |
The operative phrase here is impedance matching. With a passive preamp/attenuator, basically what you're doing when you turn down the volume is increase the output impedance (add resistance between the output of the passive pre and the input of the amp). No matter how much signal you have, it's a non-optimal situation for the preamp/amp combination.
The combination of low output impedance at the preamp (or signal source) and high input impedance at the amp is optimal.
The reverse invites compromises in sound quality.
With an active preamp, you're assured that the preamp has a low enough imdedance (enough current) to drive the amp--also the cables that connect the two devices.
Of course, with the added gain stage(s) of an active preamp, you have addtional distortion (non linearity), but that's a small price to pay IMO.
The rule of thumb I've heard is that the output impedance of the preamp should be no more than one tenth of the input impedance of the amp. The less the better. Obviously, with a passive pre you're usually way over that figure.
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| Gary Kemp |
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Reply with quote | #7 |
Implicit in CB's remarks is that the vast majority of so-called active preamps provide TWO functions: 1. Current, to maximise impedance matching, and 2. voltage gain. Once in while you hear of an active preamp that does only 1 but not 2 (which makes sense if you're dealing only with a high-output cd player for example); such preamps are called 'active' because although don't provide any extra volume, they operate with tubes or transistors. The GG provides 12db of gain (about right for a vast majority of applications), with 20db available with a simple modification; the highest I've heard of is about 30db.
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| Paul |
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Reply with quote | #8 |
thanks CB and Gary for your impressive sounding answer, but based on robert and michaels question i doubt they understood one word of it.
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| Michael Visser |
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Reply with quote | #9 |
Hello, music lovers,
Dear Paul, C.B. and, Gary Kemp,
I thank you for your help.
Over the past half year I have enjoyed reading and, sometimes
answering posts.
I have tried to help when I thought I might, and, made a few
terrible misapprehensions due to being overtired.
This naturally led to useless advice, as well as a
very red face!
In the past some of my questions have been asked as if I
know nothing regarding audio and electronics, in order to bring
out all possible answers.
In hindsight this approach was wrong.
My knowledge of these topics is mostly from reading
as well as experience in radio and TV repair during
the mid 60s, as we all know this is also the start of the
now nearly ubiquitous change to s.s. vs. tubes.
I have never taken any formal electronics courses, this
has not prevented me from being able to diagnose and
repair 75% of anything that hit the bench, and correctly too.
I can read schematics. I have made very good sounding
home recordings with what was on hand.
The reading and self educating and good ear have led me to
find the sweet spot (of everything in the string) that will yield
these good results. Good equipment, not the best.
1-from the radio.2-from vinyl. 3-from other tapes.
4-from mics. mono, stereo. 5-from c.d..
These accomplishments don't prove a damn thing, I understand this.
I have also designed, and, built just as many other
"backyard bombers" more than a dozen or so fairly good
speaker cabinets.
Arranged entire home stereo systems, to their betterment.
I have done sound and lights for 7 "garage bands"
all this ending in approx. /72.
In my re-entry into this hobby I found several forums
some mostly tube.
I have been on the web/net for 6months,
and I am overwhelmed, anything I can think of is out there!
So, I tried O.T.L. and sure enough Bruce Rosenblit to the rescue.
I had herd an O.T.L. in 1970 at a friends, never before or since
have I herd music so good.
I have a deep love of music, this and an equal interest in
the technical side has been the drive of these exercises.
If I should say sorry for longwindedness, sorry.
The background info is only that.
I very much appreciate designers like B.R.
After reading his philosophy and about his products
I am amazed how much we have in common in our
approach to audio reproduction.
Now, I am NOT AT ALL setting myself up on his level.
I needed to mention the reassurance one feels when
someone else is singing the same song.
Cordially, Michael Visser
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| Wild | |
| Michael Visser |
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Reply with quote | #11 |
Hello, Tube Audio Fans,
Thank you, Mr. Wild.
There are some folks that know more than others.
And some among us feel that many basic questions
are a sign of knowing little or nothing of the subject.
This assumption can make the blood boil, when the
quester is looking for not only an answer but, that
particular way of explaining some facet of the topic,
which will "snap" the mind to a new focus and
understanding.
Paul's notion that I would not understand a single word
of very good answers, was hurtful, and yes, I am not
an E.E. however, I am able to solve some things.
While my basic understanding of electricity and audio
electronics is beyond the basics, there are many gaps and
areas that I need help to better understand.
I will never be afraid to ask, even if some will put me down.
My hurt lasted .12 seconds. Paul I am glad you are here, I can
learn much from you, as long as your patients lasts.
I like to be right as much as anyone, herd, is the wrong spelling,
should be heard.
Cordially, M.V.
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| PAUL |
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Reply with quote | #12 |
why ask a question you already knew the answer to. you could have stated that you were interested in some opinions to gain knowledge instead of "Hello- the Grounded Grid preamp is an active preamp,right-?
thanks,
Robert" |
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| Michael Visser |
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Reply with quote | #13 |
Hello, tube audio fans,
Paul, you are right.
In some areas of my questing on this forum
I have been in a rut.
I had been on some other forums, and there, some
key concepts, my basic understanding of audio,
were smashed against the rocks.
I did not want to believe a word of these "experts".
They have foreign, weird, and, usually incorrect
ideas, passed off as truth.
The fixes these "experts" and fellow forum members
(not this forum) speak of are, of an ever increasing esoteric
nature and, expense.
These folks are often contradicting themselves and, their
"logic" is often impossible to follow.
I got so fed up with what had to be the purest B.S. I've
ever found, that I removed all traces of it from my
computer.
At that time I felt that the folks on these audio forums
may be a small world, so I was interested in not offending
anyone, should they be reading more than one forum.
This was the making of my rut, which I have well and
truly climbed out from.
Yours, Michael Visser
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| PAUL |
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Reply with quote | #14 |
I find that sometimes it seems the real purpose of forums is to provide a place for individuals to display character flaws. Egos and stupidity run amuck. I am amazed at the number of forumites that since they spent the bucks on an item its must be the best wigit out there, just showing their insecurities in the decision to purchase. How can one describe something that is purely subjective to oneself and dictate that everyone else jump on the same bandwagon?
I enjoy listening to music, whether live(preferable), over computer speakers at work, in the car or at home. Would I get more pleasure in the event by the music sounding cleaner with more dynamics, sure. Am I willing to spend more money for better seats, always. But I will leave my office speakers as they are and the car alone, and once in a while tweak the home system because that gives me pleasure also. In the local audio club we have members with incredible systems and members that do not (I am in the second group) but we all like to listen to music.
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| Michael Visser |
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Reply with quote | #15 |
Hi, Paul,
I am with you, man, I love to tweak, to improve
the sound or appearance and, make that damn drive
belt easier to get to, preventive maintenance.
I do not do this often, and do my homework first,
don't do it just to do something.
There are some as we know that have little, if any
idea what to do, and so, probably for bragging rights
and no real improvement in the quality of the sounds
of their system will mount , glue, solder, etc, the
flavor of the month super duper component in their system.
With the exception of this refreshingly honest forum,
all the other audio places I've seen in the last few
years, weather forum, magazine, or review, have
some share in the snake oil salesmen syndrome.
The language is sometimes so well crafted that I began
to wonder if I knew a damn thing of audio.
Then after some further reading of the testimonials
the "curtain fell, and I no longer paid attention."
When a clever sales program can create a small doubt
in the mind of an audio system owner, they may also
create a sale.
Snake oil sales abound, I am sickened by the cost
of some speaker wire, input line,, connectors,
none of these things I.M.O. need cost as much
as though NASA were their customer.
Are people really paying that much for wire?
And by the way, I have been checking Litz wire
what is the truth as you see it?
Yours, M.V.
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